Why does fandom hate Sam so much?

[isoughtyouout]

 I honestly just want to know why. There seems to be a lot of Sam hatred in the SPN community and I just don't get it. 

Was browing IMDB and this subject ended up coming up the below isn't my post but I found it interesting none the less: 


How is Dean and John asking, no telling Sam to stay any less selfish?

I'm exhausted arguing this. It's clear that you care more about Dean's wants and needs rather then about trying to understand the fact that Sam is a human being who also had wants and desires. A part of that was for him to go to school and to have a normal life. That is not selfish. That is normal to want things for yourself and for you to go out and get them. Mary isn't selfish for leaving her family and wanting a life with John. John isn't selfish for leaving his parents and wanting to start a life with Mary. And Sam isn't selfish for wanting his own space and wanting to find his own way. Dean isn't selfish for wanting to stay with Ben and Lisa, so on and so forth.

It's clear that many of Dean's fans wanted Sam to stay with Dean because Dean was lonely. Aparently that means more to them then Sam's growth as an individual and Sam's own need to be normal. I understand it because for most Dean fans the world starts and ends with him and they want him to be happy and anything that clashes with that is instantly antagonized and seen as a threat. They want Sam to be Dean's yes man, and they want Sam to do everything for Dean and live for Dean because to them that is what Sam would do if he truly loved Dean. Never mind the fact that this would make Sam unhappy and that Sam has needs and wants just like every other person. Never mind the fact that this is ridiculously unhealthy. Instead they think that Dean's needs are more important so Sam should suffer without. They want Sam to completely deny himself and his wants and his dreams and stay with Dean because that is what Dean secretly wanted. To Sam to stay with him and want nothing outside of hunting.

Since Sam did not do that, since Sam did leave and since Sam did carve out a life for himself separate from Dean these same fans who love Dean hate Sam for it. That's the only thing that makes sense at this point. Basically you are angry at Sam because he is not Dean. It's not that he is selfish (in the typical sense of the word) it's that he didn't choose what Dean and John wanted over what he wanted which was independence and a life of his own. I will never understand why that is enough to hate him for.

Comments

[stompy-bigfoot.livejournal.com]

maybe because he's so easy to hate. im a sammy girl. anyway, i think with dean's character, it's written out in a way that yes, he has moments where you want to bash his head into the wall, but because of his sacrifices for the family, and his angst already in the plot; you can't do anything but give him more love because that's what he desperately needs and craves and not get enough of. whereas sam, he gets alot of love already from dean. he broods, he got into college, he sacrifices but he's the colder brother (non-intentionally selfish - and more occasions less emotional/deep - perfect role for boy king), the younger one, the kid; he got everything handed to him by dean and sure he broods, he's more 'emo' on the surface, but he's not as deep as dean. not a bad thing, just facts. i think thats why we tend to pick on him more. u get my gist?

Thanks for the Comment

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

I got into a discussion today and it seems like that was corroborated for the most part. It seems that fans hate him because he is not Dean. Which is a pretty weird statement because wouldn't the show be boring if they had two of the same characters playing off one another? I actually feel really sorry for Sam as a character and he has a lot of my sympathy because I think his life just sucks all around and I also have a thing for under dogs. And in this fandom Sam is the under dog it seems as far as popularity goes.

I think from my earlier discussion he seems to be largely disliked because he is 'selfish' and I don't mean that in the normal way, as much as the compared to Dean way. He is selfish because he doesn't constantly put his brothers feelings first and causes Dean pain and so he deserves to be hated for causing Dean hardship. Pretty much everything else just stems from that and becomes fair game to pick him apart. I am guessing fans who empathize more with Dean hate to see him unhappy and they see Sam as a scapegoat to release all of their anger on because that's all that they can do.

I personally don't think that is rational though. I love both boys and what is special to me first and foremost is their relationship and their interactions to each other. I don't think either Dean or Sam is easy to hate. I get that Dean is the character whose view point the audiences sees more often then not but at the same time does that automatically mean you have to hate Sam? I personally don't think so.

I guess I have to disagree about Sam receiving so much love. If anything I think Sam is particularly isolated and has been with each passing season. He never got to know his mother, he felt his father hated him, his girlfriend died and the other relationship he found himself in was a manipulation. I don't think those are in anyway healthy relationships. Is it because Sam is more independent and not as needy? Maybe because he is seen to be stronger viewers don't find him as sympathetic?

I actually think he is a pretty sad character all things considered. No less sad then Dean and no less emotional. I actually think Sam is the more tragic brother between the two of them. For instance he always wanted a normal life but was never able to have it and all of his happier memories are tainted by demons who were always lurking behind the shadows preparing him for Lucifer. Even his prom date was a demon. He was the vessel of the devil. I actually think Sam is quite deep we just never get a chance to see into his head.

I also kind of disagree on him getting handed everything. Though Dean was supportive of him (as much as any older sibling could be) that's not a substitute for a stable family nor is it enough for any person to sustain themselves on in regards to emotional development.

I guess I just don't see why loving Dean means you have to hate Sam.

Re: Thanks for the Comment

[stompy-bigfoot.livejournal.com]

i see your point. he is a sad character and i agree on ur last comment. sam is not the reason for all of dean's problems and vice versa. and thanks for the arguement! it's been a while since i've had a lengthy talk/online chat about the two brothers.

i think with any brother relationship and any loving relationship, there's no equal love. there's no two same brothers who share same traits, but who are from the same family and share DNA. similar yet so different.

also, i think ppl tend to favor dean is because some traits of him fit into the stereotypical type of angsty male who has man pain and who's vulnerable but seems strong. SPN did really well with that, but sam they did a better job of a sad man. if you get my gist...
and ur right, he seems more independent so ppl tend to turn away from that. it's even like that in real life.

off the topic, i'm really hoping sera will got more into the sam storyline. eric was more into dean i think.

ps. i'm trying to spread sam love (even alot of my spn buddies are DEAN FTW! D: )

Re: Thanks for the Comment

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

there's no equal love

I agree with this and in most conversations it usually ends up being about the fact that Sam doesn't love Dean in the same way Dean loves him and it in some way winds up being about control, obedience, and guilt instead of about true love for the individual. Sam and Dean are both messed up and they both have a hard time showing each other that they love each other as men and it's generally very messy. But the truth is both Dean and Sam fall short on what the other wants them to be and in that measure they both 'fail' so to speak, yet it seems that Sam is the only one charged. Which is quite odd to me because it's just another argument of hypocrisy.

i'm really hoping sera will got more into the sam storyline. eric was more into dean i think.

I don't think it even matters at this point the status quo has already been established and Dean in the inside character we see things through. I just hope that the years of syndication far off will be kinder to Sam. Lord knows he needs all the help he can get.

i'm trying to spread sam love (even alot of my spn buddies are DEAN FTW!

I make it a point not to favor one over the other. But Sam often times gets my sympathy and tugs on my protective side just because there is such strong animosity towards him. But really it's their relationship that I favor. There wouldn't be a Sam and Dean without either of them. I just wish both could love them if not equally then just love them both as much as they can. But yes please continue the Sam love. I would love to help.

Re: Thanks for the Comment

[stompy-bigfoot.livejournal.com]

might sound stupid, but what do you mean by charged?

the sera thing, i think you made my point my understandable than i did. that was what i was trying to say. lol!

and the favouring, i like you said, no sam, no dean. yes sam, yes dean etc...
like you, it is the relationship that i look into . their love is not the normal american fam, its messy, painful and deep. well, i think it runs deeper than "normal" fams. and they do love each other to their max capacity.
i just felt that everyone hails dean and misses sam who's equally important and THERE on the show!

Re: Thanks for the Comment

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

Charged meaning the only one these laws or 'charges' are being held against.

Agreed completely on Sam being the step-child of supernatural. I kept thinking how it must suck for Jared. He works hard for this show as well and yet seems so often overlooked.

Re: Thanks for the Comment

[stompy-bigfoot.livejournal.com]

oh right. charged, so simple.

i know right. he does work super hard for it and he gets looked at for being jared, but for being sam; well, looked at all for the wrong reasons. stop picking on him!

Re: Thanks for the Comment

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

No butting in all comments are welcome, which is why I posted this. I want to get as many views as possible.

As to the Sam hate issue I personally I think this is the only theory which holds water at this point, at least from what I have seen. Most of the time when you engage with viewers who hate Sam it's usually because they are fans of Dean who feel Sam is 'being mean to him' which usually consists of Sam not taking Dean's side and not taking his orders. They will bring up him choosing Ruby over Dean (never mind that Dean chose to confide with Castiel at several points and was meeting with Cas behind Sam's back as well), Sam beating Dean up in Levee (when Dean has punched Sam in Bloodlust, Metamorhosis and You Can't Handle The Truth when he was unprovoked) and also bring up Sam insulting Dean (yet they don't notice that Dean teased Sam endlessly about Stanford, has called him selfish and has rubbed salt in his wounds in Everybody Loves A Clown, Metamorphosis and Levee). The truth is everything that is said against Sam could just as easily be flipped on it's head to be used against Dean as well. Neither of them are blameless and both of them have hurt one another. Their relationship is painful and dysfunctional on both sides and both Dean and Sam love each other fiercely so why the need to attack Sam who is the best part of Dean?

Honestly I find saint Dean to be such a joke now. It's like he has no flaws. He is whiter then white and is constantly written to be the one moral compass of SPN and that just makes him so incredibly boring. I do admit that it's hard to like Dean because well he just comes out seeming so self-righteous, sanctimonious and in several ways just smug because well he is always right and everyone compared to him just pales in comparison. He doesn't even have real faults that anyone can blame him for or hold him accountable on. We can't blame him for breaking the first seal because well he was tortured for ten years and he is broken up about it, we can't blame him for putting Ben and Lisa in danger because Cas snapped his fingers and everything is made better again, we can't blame him for wanting to say yes to Micheal because well it's all Sam's fault because he released Lucifer so he has to be proactive, etc. Well when you do that and you don't have a character in control of their own actions and don't give their actions any consequences then what's the point of trying to make them a hero? They have no failures and they have no faults. You end up creating a Mary Sue character.

I long for the Dean in seasons 1-3 who had flaws, made mistakes and wasn't seen as the golden boy of all things right, shiny and good. It's getting to the point now where Dean's purity and righteousness is a thing of profound parody.

Re: Thanks for the Comment

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

Feel free to quote. I also find the slave collar and Dean is an abused housewife theories to be quite ridiculous. Dean is not Sam's victim and Sam is not Dean's. They both treat each other poorly and both of them make up for it by loving the other brother in their own ways which are no less significant than the others so what's the point of attacking one for it? It's funny because it shows that these fans really don't get Sam or Dean. They just prefer one brother and only see it from their view that one brother is better and the only one can't possibly compare.

It turns me off to Dean and Supernatural at times because it's just completely ridiculous and asinine to me.

I think the writers could benefit immensely by having Dean do something wrong and not have it turn up roses for him immediately. The only thing they do is create a world where things are so black and white that no bit of grey is worth mentioning and well how boring is that? If I wanted to watch Charmed I would watch Charmed. With Sam it's not even about his actions so much about how we never get a chance to see the progress of the character. He just changes and they give us so little insight into the change and how it effects him as a person. We don't ever get to see his own personal journey for anything we only get vague impressions and jagged pieces of a missing puzzle and we have to work it all out from there.

Re: Thanks for the Comment

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

Sam led the story line in S4

Does he really though? A lot of Dean fans say how Dean is unimportant to the myth arc and it's all about Sam because Sam is important for plot purposes, but in terms of actual story and view point we see very little from his point of view. Sam may be important in terms of being Lucifer's vessel and being important to the demon community but outside of that what's his story really? We get to see so little from his point of view and we get crumbs of emotional feeling from him but well that's it. We don't see much of anything else so what prize is that? If anything at all. Sam isn't even treated as a fully fleshed out character and hasn't been treated that way since maybe s2.

Why does Sam change so instantly without any progression? First it was the addiction to demon blood, which came out of nowhere, then it was Sam and his anger issues which also came out of nowhere, and now he is atoning for things he couldn't control and had no chance of stopping in the first place (Lucifer's Seals, his actions as Soulless Sam). It's all just so annoying because we don't get to see how these things genuinely effect him and how these storylines should progress into actual arcs. Where is the beginning middle and end to these stories? Why do these stories not matter? Why don't we see them happening on screen? Why are these stories not important? sigh.

I agree completely on Sam being a virtual non-entity in the last two seasons, what's the point? Dean is the main focus and nothing else really matters outside of that. Sam only exist as an extra sensitive appendage to Dean. He has no life or meaning outside of him in terms of show commitment and relevance. Castiel is really treated no better, he exists solely to bail Dean out of trouble and has no meaning outside of that in terms of story. It's obvious the shows writers have no clue what to do with him now that they are trying to get out of the angel storylines. Cas holds even less meaning then Sam does, because at least Sam still has the brother bond which is the foundation of this show. Castiel doesn't really have anything anchoring him to this show.

I feel bad for Sam's character because it feels like his development has been stunted (at best) since the beginning of season 3 and he hasn't had a chance to really develop or change. He has been wiped out of all of the characteristics, salient personality traits that he came in with due to his endless brooding (which was warranted) and minimized airtime and story relevance. You are completely right when you say he is passive, he very nearly is. He doesn't really seem to impact much in terms of the bigger picture of the show and the story.

I agree about the poor characterization points. I think even Dean now is a watered down version of himself, he doesn't really have fun anymore. He isn't the lovable oaf he once was and he isn't the womanizer who was adorable from the former seasons. He has had all the fun sucked out of him and now he is just this caricature who always does the right thing and is some holier than thou entity who knows everything and always does the right thing. He's not human. He is a Sue because everything he does is perfect. Cas ran out of usefulness as soon as s4 ended and the show has basically admitted they don't know what else to do with him by making him evil in the s6 finale. There is nothing else for them to do with the character and he was basically useless in s5, he was barely relevant in s6 aside from the last three episodes and even that was sketchy at best because it showed that Castiel was always supposed to be a temporary character and he has by far outlived his usefulness as a character.

I agree with Lisa, she wasn't even a real person. She was just a plot puppet insert.

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

The show doesn't really make me sad anymore. I haven't enjoyed it since s3 honestly, but I can get by more or less because the show is still somewhat entertaining and interesting in a background sort of way. To me it's the fandom that is intolerable at times because they are just so centric and static on one character and seem to only watch to preen and build one character up while tearing down another. They don't even bother to try to see things towards the other characters they interact with. As far as I am concerned s4 was the worst thing that ever happened to this fandom as it brutally divided fans and as such it hasn't been the same since. I know what you mean about staying together. I honestly try to love them equally, but there are dean!girls who make it so difficult in wanting to like both of them with their hatred for Sam which is often irrational. I love Sam and I love Dean and most of all I love their relationship more then either one of them individually. It's why I continue to watch.

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

Believe me I know how you feel. I also found the whole Cas and family portion of the SPN storyline to be ridiculous. Castiel doesn't even care about Sam, he only cares about Dean. Yet Sam is supposed to risk his life and die for Castiel but Cas in turn neglects him and treats him so horribly. Castiel and Sam don't even have a relationship, Castiel never comes to Sam when he calls for him, Cas wanted to leave Sam's soul in hell and he didn't give a damn if he hurt him by bringing his wall down. So how much does Castiel really care for Sam? I would say minimally at best. Cas is all about Dean.

When did Cas become family? When did this happen? Just because Castiel saved them a bunch of times, when did their friendship become family. I just don't buy it. Maybe it's because I don't see Castiel as a human being or maybe it's just because I just don't see him as a fully fleshed out character but I find it all to be a little too much in terms of what is believable.

I agree, I think the entire show is quite Dean-centric and I think the show can only get better by having Cas leave.

[elsewhere91.livejournal.com]

Hey i just stumbled across your LJ whilst reading a fanfic i didn't agree with and i liked your response. Anyway i am a Samgirl and proud of it. I love Dean as well and i love the dysfunctional co-dependent relationship the boys have(had?). I just don't see why some fans have to tear one brother down to raise another. I agree with a lot of what you and some of the other comments have said about Sam's emotional development, it has stopped and everything that should be emotionally affecting to him (Dad dying, Madison, being possessed, him dying,watching Dean die, the deal, what happened after he scratched the wall in 6x13) and its just glossed over with 'i'm fine' it's just the writers should have Sam talk more. The one major issue i have with the writers is that they beat the dead horse until its mush, they realise that people like Dean crying and emoting, they shove it in our faces, they realise that everyone (vocal fans) likes Cas/Dean so they make slash jokes and make Dean give the whole stupid,out of nowhere fake family speech. The show needs to learn Balance, they have two leads not one,just deal with Dean's issues and make him have that spark back, give sam more emotional moments again, make them good hunters again, make them enjoy the job, give them brotherly moments again like pranking, or joking, (that's why i love frontierland just that whole conversation at the beginning with Sam Colts journal was so cute, and sam wearing the shirt dean brought and agreeing to go along with Dean's plan and Dean being giddy and fun again)

Anyway i agree both boys have faults and the show isn't perfect and i love canon dean, in show i love both Dean and Sam, but when i read comments it just really stops me from enjoying the show and it stops me from enjoying Dean. So even though i've been in fandom for a year, i'm going to stop (try lol) reading most people's comments and just read spoilers, read good fanfiction (preferably hurt sam, and awesome big bro Dean) and just read people's journals who i like. Its better for my blood pressure that way because this argument dean vs sam is never going to stop, so i'm just sick of it.

Again i agree with the issue of Sam hate as i don't get why they hate Sam so much, i've tried to understand it but i can't, like i try to understand why everyone loves Cas. So i'm not going to, i just wanna enjoy the show and enjoy fandom. I still have some hope with Sam especially after the hell wall has fallen that we'll finally get some talking between the boys and emotional development from Sam.

See i have more problems with the fact that the fandom and the show seems to gloss over and whitewash over castiels actions - just don't get me started on Castiel.


Sorry this is so long but it seems to be hard to be in this fandom when you're favourite is hated (which makes me love him more as he's the underdog and i love sam anyway) and everyone loves the character you hate(Castiel- Deans replacement brother- which makes me hate him more lol)

Again sorry for the length and thank you so much for writing what i mostly feel. Thanks.

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

Thank's for commenting! I'm glad you found me lol. Which fan fic was it if you don't mind me asking?

I agree completely on giving us some of Sam's perspective. There should be a lot more of it I think. There is so much inside him probably bursting to come out. I get that they want Sam to brood, angst and internalize what he is going through but I think they could have a wealth of material to work with if they opened him up to the audience more often. It doesn't even really have to be to Dean specifically just let the viewers know what he is thinking, what he is going through and what he is feeling. There is so much depth just waiting to be tapped into.

I will have to say fandom is horrible, or at least most of it in the SPN forums. Television Without Pity is perhaps the worst, but it's pretty bad everywhere I find. It makes me not even want to participate in it because there is so much hatred and vitriol out there. Most of the time I just make my case on a weekly episode and then I don't comeback until the next week it's just that bad. It makes me not want to read, talk or hear about SPN. I have taken much of my love over to Jared and Jensen and reading about interviews, cons, youtube videos, etc. because it's just not worth it to get into the fan wars. I read an article the other day about episode 7x05 and looked at the comments and they quickly descended into a Dean!girl cesspool of hateful comments about how the show is all about Sam and how they hated him so much because Dean has been slighted. I just shook my head and pressed the 'x' button.

I agree completely on the Dean portion of the fandom seeing Castiel as a Sam substitute/surrogate and that's why they love them. Because Castiel is subservient to Dean and exists solely to help him. I don't hate Castiel I just don't feel anything toward him. He is just there. I understand why he is popular (see reason above) but I don't even see him as a humane entity. But I do love Sam, and I think he is a very sympathetic character who gets so much hate for not being Dean, the one every wants and loves.

[elsewhere91.livejournal.com]

I'm glad i found you too - yay. It's so good to see someone with similar and the same view points as you in the fandom. Oh the fan fic was the therapy one -Ouroboros by Gedry- where both Sam and Dean go to therapy. I thought the authors attempts were fairly fair in dealing with the Winchester's problems but with having said Sam was the most selfish person ever ( which i don't agree with at all sure sam has selfish tendencies but so does Dean - the whole deal was selfish-) and me having some problems with the characterisations such as Sam hitting Dean twice in the face i just didn't agree with it.(i hope it's ok that i wrote the title and the name of the fanfic as i'm fairly new to LJ and don't wanna seem like a bitch i did leave a comment but i hate being rude to people lol)

Oh yeah i totally agree with the potential to see inside Sam *sigh* but i have some hope with season 7 with the hell wall collapsing and all. I think some Dean fans are also fed up that Dean has become the more emo brother and less proactive and a badass hunter like he used to be. It's called balance writers.

Oh yeah sometimes the fandom can be so horrible that it sucks the fun right out of the show. I mean i remember reading some good stuff about Sam this season and the first thought that came into my head was 'the extreme Dean girls are going to hate this and tear this apart.' So i can't even enjoy reading some stuff about my favourite character now. But it's my own fault i think, i've let them influence me and i've let them wreck the show for me so i'm trying to stop it, i'm trying to just read stuff i like, read spoilers and just ignore comments.

Oh television without pity is a Sam girl hell, i've been on there once, looked at the comments, raged silently and just went off. I've never been back there since and i'm never going back. Do you still post there? There's better places to go as sometimes i read comments on supernatural.tv and the cw forum has got a mixture of all fans so it might not be as negative there. I lurk there at the moment as i just can't be bothered to get into the whole Sam vs Dean or Sam vs castiel debates.

Oh i love Sam and like i said i love canon Dean but i don't like Dean in fandom, i don't like Castiel, in both show and fandom. I agree that some extreme posters who put their favourite characters on pedestals and don't see any fault in them at all are the worst and just make me hate fandom.

I love Sam i do, i know he has his faults which make him more complex, beautiful, realistic and human and just awesome. I love that about him. It's make him to me more relatable that he makes mistakes, that he's not perfect, but he gets back up again and he tries and takes responsibility for stuff that he's done unlike Castiel who blames everybody else but himself. So i'd rather have Sam standing by me then be put on a pedestal. I still don't understand and will never understand why, it seems anyway, so much fans hate Sam. I never will understand it and to me hating one of the two brothers, one of the two leads just makes me wonder why you're watching a show that is essentially about Dean and Sam and their relationship. It makes no sense to me. Sure Sam's my favourite but that doesn't mean i hate Dean or that i have to put Dean down to raise sam up. Ugh.

I think people hate Sam because he sometimes hurts Dean. Like sometimes i will get pissed at Dean when he hits Sam such as in 4x04 and hurt Sam by saying horrible things to him, but that doesn't mean i hate Dean. It's natural and realistic, that's what siblings do. That's what people do. I get why people get defensive of their characters i do, i will defend Sam against anybody, but that doesn't mean that just because i love Sam has to mean i have to hate Dean. Why is it always one or the other with these people?

Having Sam and Dean be the way they are is essential, they compliment each other with their different views and personalities. And i'm sorry but Dean wouldn't be as funny and cute with his one liners and eating habits and childish glee over stuff if sam was exactly the same, like Sam wouldn't seem as empathic if Dean was the same in cases instead of being rude and blunt to people during their cases.

Wow this is long. Sorry.

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

I think telling the fic comment that led you here is completely fine. As long as it's constructive criticism I don't see the problem and after all it's just an opinion as long as it's not needlessly cruel I don't understand why writers would be offended. It's an art medium after all. Yeah I liked Ouroboros a lot for the most part but I didn't understand some of her criticisms about the Sam character. He was saying a lot of real things in the middle of the story and then all of the sudden the author just out of nowhere called him selfish and narcissistic. I just didn't understand that. I also think it is very out of character for Sam to want to solve his issues with violence for the most part. Sam was never really the brawling type. When there was a conflict between the brothers it was often Dean who usually hit Sam first (Bloodlust, Metamorphosis, You Can't Handle The Truth, etc). The only time Sam hit Dean first was in Levee from what I remember.

Sometimes I post there (TWOP) but I mostly just leave my initial thoughts on the episode and get out of there. Sometimes I will post in the character threads but I make it a point not to post their regularly, it's just a profoundly negative place for all involved. Even the fans of Dean, the show and Castiel are ridiculously negative and seem to have so much hate within themselves for so many people within the SPN fandom. It's just sad and it honestly just makes me not want to participate most of th time because it's just such a toxic environment most of the time.

I always found Sam to be an incredibly sympathetic character and all of his actions and responses IMO have been ones that a regular person would have. I think every choice he has made has been an understandable one and one that many others would arrive at if they were given the same outlook and situations. He honestly reminds me a lot of Buffy, who also did the best with what she was dealt with and who in her heart was a good character even when she lost her way. I think Sam is a hero because he persists even though he has lost everything important to him. His need for normalcy, his mother, his girlfriend, his father, etc. He continuously has his entire life turned upside down but he still fights the good fight because he wants to make a difference in the world.

But it seems that all certain fans think about is how he isn't like Dean, and that's all they are interested in. The fact that he isn't a Dean clone who has his own thoughts, ideas and makes his own decisions independent of him seems to drive certain fans to ridicule and hatred. I think the major reason why Castiel is so popular is just because he is a character who did everything Dean asked of him. So Dean fans like him just because Castiel lived to serve Dean. But that's not really a character nor a relationship I would ever want to support or am interested in.

I try to see things from both sides of the fence at all times but I agree completely with Dean hitting Sam. It surprises me that fans don't see a problem with this. They say Sam is an abuser of Dean yet they don't count all of the times where Dean has hurt Sam just as much if not more then Sam has hurt Dean. That speech he gave to Sam in both Metamorphosis and Levee where Dean calls him a monster and that Dean would want to kill him is probably the worst thing either brother has ever said to one another. And Dean still hasn't told Sam that he is sorry about it, so Sam still thinks that Dean feels that way deep inside of him.

I honestly don't know why there is such an intense need to hate Sam just because you are a fan of Dean, but well soo many do and it makes me not really want to be apart of the show/fandom a lot of the time because the logic is just so skewed, lopsided and just plain convoluted. If Dean does something it's right because well Dean did it, if Sam does something you can bet your house that it will be nitpicked until several faults will be found.

[elsewhere91.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah i totally agree about Sam, i've always been sympathetic to Sam. I mean i don't understand why people hate Sam just because he wanted his own life away from hunting or because he disagrees with Dean, or because he's not a clone of Dean. I guess that's one of lifes mysteries.

Oh i totally agree about Castiel being liked because i think the majority of Castiel lovers already had problems with sam and along comes this character who saved Dean from hell, who has a profound(gag) bond with Dean. I'm not interested in a relationship that is blatant fanservice for the vocal fans and is built on lies.

Again i know Sam hate is there but i just ignore it now, i don't agree with it, it just upsets me because most of it is imho, just stupid. The one thing however that really pisses me off is when people start insulting the actors and it seems especially prominent for Jared. I know when people insult Sam it hurts but i can ignore and dismiss it because he's a fictional character but when people start insulting a real life person because he didn't mention Jensen in every single sentence is just beyond pathetic and it makes my blood boil. I just want to scream to them how dare they insult someone to me comes of as a caring, considerate, funny man who loves his fans, just because he plays a character you don't like.

Oh yes i 100% agree with most of the fandom being hypocrites, if Dean does something it's ok, but if Sam does the exact same thing it's insulted, it's wrong etc. *sigh* But i'm not gonna let them bring me down anymore, i'm not going to let them wreck my favourite show for me lol.

Anyway do you mind if i friend you, although i'm not a fan of slash, i'm ok with people who are. I just like that you have the same opinions of Sam and fandom as me and that you like my favourite character.

Thanks.

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

Friend away!

I know what you mean about people who attack Jared just because he plays Sam. I find that to be ridiculous and I just hate that he is disrespected in cons as well especially because he seems to put so much effort into trying to make it the best experience for those who go out and support the show. He really puts in effort there and puts himself out there and tries to make the fans feel apart of the show. He really gives a lot and I don't think it really gets recognized which is incredibly sad. He goes to pretty much all the cons he can go to and you can imagine how much time that probably takes him with the show filming, travel, the convention itself and everything else. Yet he still gets treated poorly by some of the fans in this fandom. He really doesn't get enough credit in my opinion. But people think that just because they paid for tickets they can treat the stars anyway they want.

It's quite sad.

[jayd-schuy.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I've long since learned and accepted that in any fandom the two sides are gonna be uneven. In Harry Potter the Marauder fans always gave Snape the benefit of the doubt, but Snape fans made the Mauraders out to be inherently evil.

Same goes for Supernatural fans. Sam fans always accept that Dean makes just as many mistakes as Sam ever did. But Dean fans never accepted that he was human, seeing him as this paragon of perfection...and Sam is inherently evil because he left to go to college. And in some ways, the script writers supproted that outlook, posting Sam as the "dark" brother.

As far as the beginning of the series, I ALWAYS saw more darkness in Dean than in Sam. And that has never changed for me. In fact, Dean has pissed me off more so than Sam ever did, and in the long run, I've found him to be more selfish as well.

Still, I like both brothers evenly. I may identify with Dean a bit better, and my friend idetifies with Sam a bit better, but both are evenly human, and evenly important.

I find this double standard in fandom annoyingly consistant. Though one also has to admit, that the majority of fans who go online only do it to compain, with a select few vastly more mature fans speaking up online...Its true that good news is spread by word of mouth and bad news goes "viral".

Just our luck, that most of the fana who want to complain appear to be your stereotypical "Dean fans".

[isoughtyouout.livejournal.com]

I agree on the fact that the internet attracts the most negativity surrounding everything. You will almost never see a person say what they liked about a show, but you will always see a person talking about what they didn't like or hated. It's unfortunate but it's the way of the web.

Finding your blog

[rraz45.livejournal.com]

Hi I found your blog and I have some major agreements. I am personally a Dean girl. But I agree with you. If you are a true fan of Supernatural, you cannot hate either of the boys. I mean there is no Supernatural without Sam AND Dean. I was on Tumblr today, and I saw some major hate towards Dean from the most recent episode of Supernatural. I just don't get why people are like "okay Dean just die already" (or excuse my language) "fuck you Sam." Both make mistakes, but they grow together into stronger men.

I just really do not get the hate on either of the boys. They are the show after all. Jared and Jensen are phenomenal actors, and they make their characters these major icons fans fall in love with. I am sorry if I am ranting, but I mean really I absolutely agree. Both brothers had their ups and downs where we loved them and at times were so frustrated with them. But their are human, and humanity is imperfect.