Bottom Jared and Sam in their OTP's
Jul. 26th, 2011 05:17 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
isoughtyououtBottom Jared: I guess for me I have a hard time envisioning Jared as a bottom mostly because I just don't see him as a kind of character who would willingly bottom for an extended amount of time. I guess that's where a lot of fics with bottom Jared go wrong for me because I just don't buy their portrayal of Jared being this needy bottom who always wants to be screwed. I don't believe the man wants to be penetrated and the author doesn't create a large enough incentive to make it work or make it credible. He just seems to want it, well why? What makes Jared want it? Safe to say I just don't buy it.
The man is just so assertive and extroverted in everything that he does and in generally is so very dominant in all the things that he does why would he feel the need to want to be penetrated? I just don't see him as being this person who would want to bottom all the time. I could see him experimenting with it if his partner pushed for it a couple of times or even see him being curious. But I can't believe that he would want to exclusively bottom and not want to penetrate his partner. That's just not believable. I find that to be even less believable when Jensen is made out to be the top in their relationship. Specifically because Jared always takes the lead in their relationship and always initiates contact with Jensen. He leads and Jensen follows be it in conversations at conventions, photo pictures and interviews, etc. Jared just seems to always lead. So how can I buy that all of the sudden Jensen calls the shots in their bedroom?
I can buy a character like JDM making Jared want it, but that is because their is an authority figure here that I believe JDM is able to work with, and it's that daddy figure and pronounced experience that would make Jared want to try bottoming. But I can't buy that with Jensen/Jared or J2 because I don't think Jensen has that much pronounced experience, expertise and sexual deviance over Jared.
As to his stature. The man is 6'5 tall and is built like a mountain, he can bench press well over 200 pounds since I don't buy that Jared would want it I have an equally hard time believing that a character could force him into it. There is pretty much no one in the CWRPS that could physically force Jared into much of anything. So how am I supposed to believe that Jensen could make Jared submit to him? The only way I could see Jared bottoming by force is if he was ill/sick, de-aged, physically injured, sleeping or if he was incapacitated in another way like being tied up.
Which brings me to the next point. From what I have read from most bottom Jared fics they usually have Jared incapacitated in some way which I understand the reason for. They need to find some way to weaken the dominant hold of a stronger Jared in order to make the other character top. They usually try to remove Jared's strength in numerous ways in order to make the other character top him. They will make him lower of social status, take away his out going nature, make him incredibly young or they will weaken his muscle development. Virtually stripping him of his powerful figure in an attempt to make him more recessive and softer. They need to weaken Jared in order to make him vulnerable for the other character to be dominant over him. Which isn't my cup of tea at all. I don't want to read Jared being hurt, drugged or beaten which is why I usually don't read bottom Jared fics
The man is just so assertive and extroverted in everything that he does and in generally is so very dominant in all the things that he does why would he feel the need to want to be penetrated? I just don't see him as being this person who would want to bottom all the time. I could see him experimenting with it if his partner pushed for it a couple of times or even see him being curious. But I can't believe that he would want to exclusively bottom and not want to penetrate his partner. That's just not believable. I find that to be even less believable when Jensen is made out to be the top in their relationship. Specifically because Jared always takes the lead in their relationship and always initiates contact with Jensen. He leads and Jensen follows be it in conversations at conventions, photo pictures and interviews, etc. Jared just seems to always lead. So how can I buy that all of the sudden Jensen calls the shots in their bedroom?
I can buy a character like JDM making Jared want it, but that is because their is an authority figure here that I believe JDM is able to work with, and it's that daddy figure and pronounced experience that would make Jared want to try bottoming. But I can't buy that with Jensen/Jared or J2 because I don't think Jensen has that much pronounced experience, expertise and sexual deviance over Jared.
As to his stature. The man is 6'5 tall and is built like a mountain, he can bench press well over 200 pounds since I don't buy that Jared would want it I have an equally hard time believing that a character could force him into it. There is pretty much no one in the CWRPS that could physically force Jared into much of anything. So how am I supposed to believe that Jensen could make Jared submit to him? The only way I could see Jared bottoming by force is if he was ill/sick, de-aged, physically injured, sleeping or if he was incapacitated in another way like being tied up.
Which brings me to the next point. From what I have read from most bottom Jared fics they usually have Jared incapacitated in some way which I understand the reason for. They need to find some way to weaken the dominant hold of a stronger Jared in order to make the other character top. They usually try to remove Jared's strength in numerous ways in order to make the other character top him. They will make him lower of social status, take away his out going nature, make him incredibly young or they will weaken his muscle development. Virtually stripping him of his powerful figure in an attempt to make him more recessive and softer. They need to weaken Jared in order to make him vulnerable for the other character to be dominant over him. Which isn't my cup of tea at all. I don't want to read Jared being hurt, drugged or beaten which is why I usually don't read bottom Jared fics
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Date: 2011-08-01 08:39 am (UTC)I don't think that for Jared to submit he needs to be injured or incapacitated. If he wants to submit, it would be easy for Jensen to make him do so, it's all a matter of will. And Jensen is kind of controlling in a quite subtle way. I have read a couple of fics where Jared was the kind of dominant type de facto, but he was getting sick of everyone just assuming this and he wanted for once to be the one protected taken care, he wanted that feeling because he'd never felt it before. It was kinda hot ;)
And by the way, 80% of the fics I read, Jared is more or less in charatcer, meaning he's loud and boisterous, pushy and demanding but still sort of silly and really adorable!
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Date: 2011-08-01 09:12 am (UTC)I agree except for most fics that I have read which have made this characterization of Jared, which I find usually happens when I tend to read Bottom Sam or Bottom Jared. The neediness, lust and desperation to be penetrated is almost always there and that's something that I always have a problem with in terms of reading because I just don't view Jared as being the needy bottom who wants to be penetrated all the time and I find myself asking why? in that instance. What makes him want it so bad to where he would beg for it and so on and so forth? What swings the power dynamic in Jensen/Dean's favor so to speak? With Sam I don't find this to be plausible as I said before with you I can't believe Sam would ever willingly give up control in a place or area where he is so dominant in. But with Jensen and Jared I ask myself why does Jared want to submit and usually this question is left unanswered a lot of the time. I can understand it with JDM because well everyone bottoms for JDM LOL. Like I said before I can believe Jared would be curious enough to want to experience it and I think JDM would want the daddy role and would push for it.
In most cases where I have read bottom Jared he just constantly wants to be penetrated and that's it. There often is no reason given why. Or in other cases there is usually a some kind of hindrance which makes Jared topping out of the question(he is de-aged and given less experience/is less able to penetrate in some ways de-masculinized, he is tied up or in some way forced to receive, he is hurt/injured which makes topping less possible, he is enslaved, experiences muscle degeneration or some kind of personality change where he is made to be submissive) and then it's a forgone conclusion that he is the bottom just because he is meek and won't contest or challenge his partner in topping. Which I just don't find interesting because well that's not Jared. What the author or writer is describing is not the characterization that fandom knows him to be and I am foremost interested in reading J2. Not one J and an OC.
For the most part I have no problem with Jared bottoming once in awhile usually because from what I have seen in most top!Jared fics where they switch they don't change the character to let Jensen top. Jared is usually either curious or he is giving Jensen a gift when he bottoms. Jared is letting Jensen top and it makes a lot of sense to me that it would happen in such a way where Jared would want to experience something and shake things up. But usually in most bottom!Jared fics I find that not to be the case and in most cases they usually have Jared dis-empowered so Jensen has a reason to top.
no subject
Date: 2011-08-01 10:05 am (UTC)everyone bottoms for JDM LOL hahaha yeah, but is this because of the age thing? Because otherwise I never thought of JDM as very aggressive or dominant :/
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Date: 2011-08-01 10:22 am (UTC)As to Jensen treated like a woman I can't remember reading fics where he was immasculated so to speak, but then again I am often turned off by most fics that involve poor characterization, feminization and cross dressing. In most of the fics that I have read Jensen maintains all of his usual qualities. He is grumpy, curt, sarcastic, shy, reserved, dry-witted but more or less still a good person even if he leans a bit on the anti-social side. When I have read bottom Jared fics though I always feel like Jared is being some way diminished be it in his personality, his physical description in his stature or by some outward circumstances by the plot within the story and it usually all aimed to make him a less imposing figure so that Jensen can top. Most of the time when it's equal from what I have seen is when Jared predominantly tops and then ends up wanting to experiment with bottoming which makes sense to me as a reason more or less.
I don't know JDM just strikes me as being growly, brawny man masculine and having all this experience which would make everyone around him want to bottom for him. He does strike me as being in control in the situation even if he is cool and affection. JDM is a ladies man too, he has two children by two different women. He gets around!