Bottom Jared and Sam in their OTP's
Jul. 26th, 2011 05:17 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
isoughtyououtBottom Jared: I guess for me I have a hard time envisioning Jared as a bottom mostly because I just don't see him as a kind of character who would willingly bottom for an extended amount of time. I guess that's where a lot of fics with bottom Jared go wrong for me because I just don't buy their portrayal of Jared being this needy bottom who always wants to be screwed. I don't believe the man wants to be penetrated and the author doesn't create a large enough incentive to make it work or make it credible. He just seems to want it, well why? What makes Jared want it? Safe to say I just don't buy it.
The man is just so assertive and extroverted in everything that he does and in generally is so very dominant in all the things that he does why would he feel the need to want to be penetrated? I just don't see him as being this person who would want to bottom all the time. I could see him experimenting with it if his partner pushed for it a couple of times or even see him being curious. But I can't believe that he would want to exclusively bottom and not want to penetrate his partner. That's just not believable. I find that to be even less believable when Jensen is made out to be the top in their relationship. Specifically because Jared always takes the lead in their relationship and always initiates contact with Jensen. He leads and Jensen follows be it in conversations at conventions, photo pictures and interviews, etc. Jared just seems to always lead. So how can I buy that all of the sudden Jensen calls the shots in their bedroom?
I can buy a character like JDM making Jared want it, but that is because their is an authority figure here that I believe JDM is able to work with, and it's that daddy figure and pronounced experience that would make Jared want to try bottoming. But I can't buy that with Jensen/Jared or J2 because I don't think Jensen has that much pronounced experience, expertise and sexual deviance over Jared.
As to his stature. The man is 6'5 tall and is built like a mountain, he can bench press well over 200 pounds since I don't buy that Jared would want it I have an equally hard time believing that a character could force him into it. There is pretty much no one in the CWRPS that could physically force Jared into much of anything. So how am I supposed to believe that Jensen could make Jared submit to him? The only way I could see Jared bottoming by force is if he was ill/sick, de-aged, physically injured, sleeping or if he was incapacitated in another way like being tied up.
Which brings me to the next point. From what I have read from most bottom Jared fics they usually have Jared incapacitated in some way which I understand the reason for. They need to find some way to weaken the dominant hold of a stronger Jared in order to make the other character top. They usually try to remove Jared's strength in numerous ways in order to make the other character top him. They will make him lower of social status, take away his out going nature, make him incredibly young or they will weaken his muscle development. Virtually stripping him of his powerful figure in an attempt to make him more recessive and softer. They need to weaken Jared in order to make him vulnerable for the other character to be dominant over him. Which isn't my cup of tea at all. I don't want to read Jared being hurt, drugged or beaten which is why I usually don't read bottom Jared fics
The man is just so assertive and extroverted in everything that he does and in generally is so very dominant in all the things that he does why would he feel the need to want to be penetrated? I just don't see him as being this person who would want to bottom all the time. I could see him experimenting with it if his partner pushed for it a couple of times or even see him being curious. But I can't believe that he would want to exclusively bottom and not want to penetrate his partner. That's just not believable. I find that to be even less believable when Jensen is made out to be the top in their relationship. Specifically because Jared always takes the lead in their relationship and always initiates contact with Jensen. He leads and Jensen follows be it in conversations at conventions, photo pictures and interviews, etc. Jared just seems to always lead. So how can I buy that all of the sudden Jensen calls the shots in their bedroom?
I can buy a character like JDM making Jared want it, but that is because their is an authority figure here that I believe JDM is able to work with, and it's that daddy figure and pronounced experience that would make Jared want to try bottoming. But I can't buy that with Jensen/Jared or J2 because I don't think Jensen has that much pronounced experience, expertise and sexual deviance over Jared.
As to his stature. The man is 6'5 tall and is built like a mountain, he can bench press well over 200 pounds since I don't buy that Jared would want it I have an equally hard time believing that a character could force him into it. There is pretty much no one in the CWRPS that could physically force Jared into much of anything. So how am I supposed to believe that Jensen could make Jared submit to him? The only way I could see Jared bottoming by force is if he was ill/sick, de-aged, physically injured, sleeping or if he was incapacitated in another way like being tied up.
Which brings me to the next point. From what I have read from most bottom Jared fics they usually have Jared incapacitated in some way which I understand the reason for. They need to find some way to weaken the dominant hold of a stronger Jared in order to make the other character top. They usually try to remove Jared's strength in numerous ways in order to make the other character top him. They will make him lower of social status, take away his out going nature, make him incredibly young or they will weaken his muscle development. Virtually stripping him of his powerful figure in an attempt to make him more recessive and softer. They need to weaken Jared in order to make him vulnerable for the other character to be dominant over him. Which isn't my cup of tea at all. I don't want to read Jared being hurt, drugged or beaten which is why I usually don't read bottom Jared fics
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-07-26 12:10 pm (UTC)These are all archetypes persay we don't really know them we can only glimpse what we know of them from cons, pictures, gag reels, interviews and other such things.
As to the bottom Jared fics I have read they seem to either go in one or two ways. They just somehow say that Jared wants to be dominated but don't go in depth in why he wants to be dominated or why he wants to bottom. They just write it as typical which I admitted above doesn't really work for me as a reader.
Or the writer diminishes Jared into a weakling by removing all of his personal strengths like his physical muscles, his out going personality or limit him in some other way to where Jared has to be the weaker/subservient character and I ask myself what's the point? Because this character doesn't even remotely resemble Jared, he at most is just a name and a body used to write original fiction, which is fine but what's the point of using J2? The audience? The exposure? I don't know. That leaves me with a very bad experience because it just reinforces that Jared is the top more or less because they had to diminish him in some way (by either taking away his personality traits, altering his physical body, etc.) in order to let Jensen top in the first place. They either ignore the more aggressive aspects of Jared's personality or they alter them in order to fit with a more dominant, controlling Jensen (which I personally don't see but for me that isn't even the biggest problem).
I personally find from what I read in bottom Jensen fics, Jensen's personality is for the most part in tact. He is grumpy, always needs his coffee, isn't a morning person, is a sarcastic smart ass, shy, a little ornery but still all in all a good caring person underneath the grit. So I can't say I ever felt that Jensen was short changed in the bottom Jensen fics I have read. I feel this isn't the case with bottom Jared fics from what I have seen. But I admit that I am bias. But from what I have seen a lot of bottom!Jared fics seem to go out of their way to lower Jared in some way or form of importance, be it socially (slave, sex worker, poor college student) while in some way or form pushing Jensen up in order to give him reasons to top Jensen is usually found to be a rich white collar worker and in generally is always seen as being above Jared in bottom!Jared fics, which makes me think that it's the writers way of giving an excuse to let Jensen be the top. There is seemingly no equality in their relationships.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-26 12:11 pm (UTC)As to Sam and Dean, I never thought of Dean as an alpha male top. His overtly macho attitude always seemed to me to be Dean overcompensating for his resulting loneliness because he wanted his family together again and didn't know how to connect with people. Dean to me is just too subservient to his father and too maternal of Sam to buy Dean topping Sam I guess. Sam though is very independent, makes his choices and fights for what he wants we saw this by the way he fought John continuously while Dean took orders. Sam left while Dean stayed. Sam went after what he wanted while Dean passive aggressively sulked while Sam did what he wanted. I just don't see Dean as being very aggressive and dominant, where as Sam very much is. Dean for the most part just wants Sam. Dean needs Sam more then Sam needs Dean. However I think Sam may want Dean more then Dean wants Sam. For that reason alone I could see Dean bottoming for Sam to stop Sam from leaving because as I said before I just don't think Sam would willingly bottom for anyone.
I find Dean to be very needy and desperately hungry for any affection he can get which is why I see him as the ultimate bottom in SPN. I don't see Dean as an alpha at all. His wants and needs always come second to those he cares about, he is very nurturing and he has this desperate need to be loved back as well. He falls apart when he thinks his family doesn't love him. Where as both Sam and John were able to go on even though they believed they hated eachother.
I guess I just don't see Jensen as controlled, possessive or growly. Jared I think is very possessive with his mandhandling, constant hands all over people and just in general his very warm nature. He is very dominant in conversations, body language, he teases Jensen endlessly, etc. While it usually takes Jensen a moment or so to warm up and that's usually when he is in Jared's presence. When he doesn't have a buffer he is very tame and isn't as open as when he is with Jared. I guess that's why I see him as submissive and shy because I think he has even admitted that he doesn't like crowds, or talking in public, etc. Jensen has even admitted that Jared has helped him come out of his shell more because he has had a hard time interacting publicly with fans.
That being said obviously people like what they like and I don't begrudge that at all. But I my problem with them stems from the fact that they seem to have to go the extra mile in order to short-change Jared enough so that Jensen is the top, and I wind up thinking to myself what's the point of writing J2 if you are going to remove everything that makes the character the character?
no subject
Date: 2012-09-18 02:51 pm (UTC)